Crocuse

//Mystic River// Ginger- 1. What do you think of Celeste's suspicion of Dave once she hears of Katie's murder? Do you see her doubt of him as a betrayal to their trust and marriage? Or do you feel that she's justified considering the evidence? (144) 2. Also, I know that we started to discuss this on Friday, but I wanted to continue the conversation about Jimmy's hatred for Brendan Harris. Do you think it has something to do with Jimmy's murderous past? A family connection? Or something less concrete? It seems that Jimmy doesn't know the reasons behind his resentment towards Brendan's "shy goddamned smile," not even fully conscious of his malignant attitude towards him until Pete points out his strange behavior (83). Could this possibly just be the pain of his past emerging in some random way?

Andrea- I thought that part of Jimmys hatred towards Brendan is simply because he is taking his little girl away from him. At this point Jimmy doesn't know about their plan to run off and elope, but they are pretty serious and I think he is aware that at some point he will "take her" form him. I think that this is just part of it, I think there is more like we talked about in class but at this point im not sure what exactly Jimmy findes infuriating about Brendan. My bet would be there is a connection between their families that Brendan doesn't know about.

I was wondering... 1) What about this Roman character? Im back tracking a little bit, but it seems like there is something there. On page 51 Katie says, "Roman doesn't deliver bad news. He just takes care of it." I don't think we can ignore that, but then again it could be nothing. What do you guys think? 2) I went back and looked at the part where Katie hits the body. It says, "Katie saw him coming toward her, and she started to relax because he looked familiar and harmless until she noticed the gun in his hand." It just said he looked familiar not that she recognized him. It could just be someone she's seen around the neighborhood. I think that she would have known exactly who it was if she saw Dave, but she was really drunk so that might account for her haziness. At this point I dont think it was Dave because that is too convenient/obvious.

sorry you guys! I posted my questions in the discussion! we can completely disregard that!

Sylvia: 1. Assuming that Dave did kill the man who "attacked him," do you think he had planned this murder beforehand? Celeste seems to suspect this the morning after the murder when she thinks to herself that "Dave had lied to her" (117), but could this be paranoia on her part? If the murder was pre-meditated, for what reasons did Dave do it and why that specific man?

2. This question is similar to Ginger's question about Brendan. Does Jimmy have a past with the Harris' that we still do not know about because Jimmy tells Katie to "stay away from the Harrises; you ever bring one home, I disown you" (87). Is Jimmy's hatred for Brendan, who sweet and good, just random or is there deeper meaning attached to Jimmy's strong emotions?

(still Sylvia) In response to Ginger's 2nd question and Andrea's response, I think that Jimmy's motives for hating Brendan are not random. I agree with Andrea that Jimmy could be mad because Brendan is taking out his little girl, but Jimmy's emotions definitely come from a stronger place than that. He tells Katie to never talk to any of the Harrises, so it is not as if Jimmy just hates Brendan. Of course, when Jimmy sees Brendan the day Katie goes missing Jimmy shows no hatred towards Brendan's mute brother. Pete even asks Jimmy about his issues with Brendan because it is so obvious Jimmy is regarding only Brendan. I think Jimmy's motives for hating Brendan will be one the many things we discover as the plot progresses.

Ginger- I definitely agree that Jimmy would feel threatened if he though Brendan was taking his little girl, but at this point he is ostensibly completely unaware that Katie and Brendan were seeing each other...he said that Brendan "barely knew her," and he had no knowledge that they were even friends let alone dating. Katie worked really hard to keep their relationship a secret because she knew that Jimmy hated the Harris family, which is what caused my confusion before.

In response to Sylvia's first question, I definitely don't think Dave's assault (and possible murder) of the "mugger" was pre-meditated; he seemed much too frantic and agitated that night for it to be planned. Although you could argue that he was putting on an act to alleviate suspicion from Celeste, his emotions seemed genuine to me. "It makes you feel alone...hurting someone...it makes you feel...Alien," he says softly to Celeste (69). Dave is clearly not a violent person, not accustomed to the idea of hurting others, so vulnerable and distressed by his uncharacteristic actions. With a reaction like this, I can't imagine that he could have deliberately planned and murdered a man. However, I think Celeste's sense that Dave is lying about something is correct; we just don't know why yet.