Roses

About A Boy

Claire Leichter --- Discussion Questions: Is Fiona a good influence on Marcus? I think she is both a good and a bad influence on Marcus. On the one hand, she is teaching him the value of being unique and not a follower (he wears different clothes, eats different food, and listens to different music. This is a great quality to possess (and, ironically, one that Will does not possess) and will help Marcus later in life. However, at the same time, Fiona is trying so hard to make Marcus unique that she has estranged him from his peers and made him miserable. There is something to be said for being unique, but sometimes fitting in is healthy too. Also, because she is so set upon making Marcus unique, she is not letting him make decisions for himself. She and Marcus have an argument over this idea, and although Fiona argues that she does let Marcus choose for himself, it becomes clear that her idea of 'choosing' is a conversation with her in which she always "wins." This cannot be helping Marcus. Finally, I think it is pretty clear that her depression does not influence Marcus in a good way. Watching her cry everyday, and even attempt suicide is not healthy for Marcus. He inevitably will think that she does not love him enough, and when a person is around someone else who is depressed everyday, it is hard for this depression not to wear off on that other person.

What impact will Marcus have on Will? What impact will Will have on Marcus?

Mel Sperling--- Discussion Questions: 1. Was there one traumatic experience that caused Will to be the way that he is (always puts himself first, lies to get women, doesn't care about others, doesn't want a serious relationship) I don't necessarily think that there was one specific event that caused Will to be the way that he is. However, I think that his childhood and his upbringing had a large impact on the narcacistic person he is today. Because his father wrote "Santa's Super Sleigh", Will will never have to work a day in his life. He has always lived in his father's shadow and he is ashamed of it. Perhaps because he closes himself off from other people in an effort to not be known as his father's son, he is lonely. Maybe he focuses on himself as a coping mechanism for his insecurities. "The 20-year-old Will would have been surprised and perhaps disappointed to learn that he would reach the age of 36 without finding a life for himself." (Page 8) This makes me believe that there may have been some event that we might learn about later that changed the way he saw his life playing out. Overall, I think that Will's selfishness is just a front that he puts up and that with the exposure to Marcus, he will begin to change. --Claire (we could all type in different colors for the discussions?)

I don't really remember what page we were supposed to read up through, but I read way ahead and he drops awkward hints about his childhood throughout, but it's still sort of a mystery..? I don't know, I think there definitely was something.

I wonder if Will was maybe bullied like Marcus when he was in grade school. He seems to have an unhealthy obsession with looking 'cool,' which is something people generally have grown out of after they finish grade school. Perhaps a bad schooling experience caused him to always feel like an outsider, and now that he is older and independent, the only thing he can think to do with his life is to try to be more like the 'popular' kids who used to pick on him. It is possible that other kids made fun of him because he was so reliant on his parents, and also because he was rich because of "Santa's Super Sleigh" - not the coolest song. This would also explain his reluctance to tell people about "Santa's Super Sleigh." If he was bullied when he was younger, and now is trying to look cool, this would explain his lies etc. -- Mel P Ha oops I just read a bit more and Will directly says that he was not bullied, but actually did the bullying in grade school. So I guess not on the comment above....

2. Marcus and Will seem to be opposites, do you think one has more to offer the other, or can they help each other equally to grow up?

Melanie Perten-- 1. Marcus seems to think that if his mom was in a good relationship, she would be completely better. Is it possible that this could cure her depression, or is this just a child's fantasy? 2. Why is Marcus drawn to Will? What makes him think Will is a good person? I don't really know if Marcus thinks Will is a "good" person. As cliche as it sounds, it makes sense that someone in Marcus' position would search for a father figure, and Will is really the first adult male he lands on. Think of how lonely Marcus' life is. Especially after his mother tries to kill herself, he literally has nobody to turn to, no friends to spend time with or talk to. I also think that Marcus recognizes Will as someone uniquely balanced between two realms of existence - part thirty-six year old reserved adult, part hip teenager. Marcus sees this and is attracted to it.

(PS ignore the discussion comment, I accidentally tried to put my questions in that way, and now I don't know how to delete it...) Bobby- Is what Will is doing - dating Fiona, pretending he has a child, putting up with Marcus - noble or self-serving? Is he still doing it for himself, or for them?

I think that at least at first Will's actions are self-serving. Will saw Fiona and Marcus as a source of entertainment. After Fiona attempted to commit suicide, Will casually thought that "it had all been very interesting..." (71) At this point, Will didn't have any connection with Fiona and Marcus and the very serious event of Fiona's attempted suicide just made for an interesting night in Will's monotonous life. However, as their relationship grows, I think that Will begins to truly care about Marcus. Will begins to care about Marcus and actually enjoy his company. Will tells himself that he doesn't care and that he doesn't want to get involved in Marcus' life, yet, he "found himself working Marcus's visits into the fabric of his day." (116) I think that Will comes to want to "put up with Marcus", so I think that he is beginning to act to help them rather than just himself.

As of where I am in the story now (pg 127) I think that everything Will is doing is still self-serving. He thinks Fiona is weird - she doesn't "look the way he [wants] women to look," and for this reason he decides he doesn't want anything to do with her (98). If he was trying to be noble, he would spend time with her for her, not avoid her so as to not ruin his own image of being only around people who care how they look. Even what he has been doing to help Marcus has been self-serving. True, Will does seem to really be trying to help Marcus (bought him the sneakers), but his intentions are not to help Marcus, they are to help himself feel good for helping Marcus. Its ironic that Will thinks that he is doing a selfless deed ("So this was what people meant by a natural high! He couldn't recall having felt like this before, so at peace with himself, so convinced of his own self-worth. And, unbelievably, it had only cost him sixty quid!" (126)), and I think that his future charity towards Marcus will continue to have the intention of making Will feel this "natural high."

Claire - I know most have you have finished the book already, so you probably know the answer to this already...(I'm on page 227). Discussion Question: Why is Ellie interested in Marcus? How does her difficult relationship with her mother affect her?

Mel Sperling- Ellie is older than Marcus, and she often gets in trouble at school. I think that she is interested in Marcus because he is such an outsider. He does not fit in with the other kids, and i think she admires the fact that he is different, because she feels as though she belongs all the time either. I also think that Ellie is comforted by Marcus, becuase his family life is more difficult than hers. Ellie also constantly tells laughs at things Marcus says and tells him that he is funny. We see plenty of examples of Ellie being ashamed of her mother, when she and Marcus are at the New Year's Eve party Ellie states that she is embarrassed. "'Which one's your mum?' [asked Marcus] 'Don't ask,' said Ellie. 'Not now.'". (198) Here Ellie is chagrined about her mother because she is dancing crazily on the dance floor; however, she says that she loves her mother, but does not seem to be connected to her. When Marcus and Ellie are talking about mothers killing themselves, Marcus claims that because mothers have kids, their lives partially belong to there kids. Ellie has a different view when she says "I wouldn't like [if my mum killed herself]. Because i like my mum. But, you know. It's her life". (202) This quote stood out to me because it helped me learn more about Ellie's relationship with her mother. Ellie loves her mother but it is clear that sometimes her mother lives her life with out thinking about how she is affecting her daughter.

I also think Ellie enjoys how much Marcus likes her. It feels good when it is clear that someone admires you, and Marcus does not hide his adoration/admiration for Ellie. Ellie must especially crave this attention from Marcus because it is clear she does not get it at home from her mother. I also think Ellie gets a kick out of how unique and untainted by society Marcus is. Quite literally, Marcus knows NOTHING about what is going on in the world, and since Ellie loves to rebel against everything that is going on in the world, he is a breath of fresh air.

Mel P - I'm not sure if we need another question, so I'm just going to throw one out just in case...If you haven't finished, DO NOT read the question...totallll spoiler.

"'I don't. Not anymore. I bloody hate Joni Mitchell.' Will knew then, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that Marcus would be OK." What did you feel about the ending of the book? Do you think Marcus will be OK? What do you think about the message in those last few lines that you have to lose your identity/become cool in order to be OK?

I'm really not sure how I feel about the ending. Obviously, Marcus has changed in a way that's sort of sad for the reader.. I know I enjoyed his quirky style in a sort of "oh, isn't he cute (and also amusingly weird)" kind of way. This last section clearly shows that he changes into a more "typical" teenage character. It's ambiguous, though, whether the change is brought about simply by his advancing maturity and the fact that he is approaching those sullen teenage years, or by any sort of intentional shift in behavior and outward appearance in order to make himself more compatible with his peers.

Either way, Will comments that "Marcus had lost himself, and got to walk home from school with his shoes on." I just don't know if Marcus did it on purpose or not.

Mel Sperling- This was not my ideal ending. I think the ending sent a message that said that you have to be like everyone else in order to have a happy experience as a younger child. Marcus is forced to change to be more like the other kids at his school. I definitely think that he did need to make more friends, and his idiosyncratic character was holding him back from that. Obviously he does not make a total transformation, but is that the path that he is on? I think that Will and Marcus did learn a lot from each other. Will, for the first time in a long time, began to care about someone else aside from himself. He learned that he can both have a carefree fun life, and be kind and help others at the same time.

My question: Is two enough? Or is Marcus right in depending upon a network of tenuous connections - friendships, at best - to help him through life? Does one need real, meaningful relationships?

I still haven't finished the book (I'll hopefully finish it tonight), so I have tried hard not to read Mel P's question, but in response to Bobby's: I think that for Marcus, two is not enough. Because Marcus' mother is such an off-beat and strong influence on him, he needs the balance of other relationships to help shape him as a person. While real and meaningful relationships would definitely be preferable, I think that Marcus more than anything needs the change of pace from his home life. That is where Will and Ellie come in.

Mel Sperling- Claire i completely agree with you! i think that Marcus DOES need more than just a relationship with Will and his Mother. Both relationships are a little off, and i think he need to become more social with kids his own age. But, this once again brings us back to the question of whether or not it is worth changing yourself in order to fit in. For Marcus to fit in, he needs to become someone different than who he is. Is that okay? It it worth changing yourself in order to fit in and make friends? He may need to make some friends in order to be socially healthy when he is older. I don't think it is okay to not be yourself. He needs to find a happy compromise.

Yeah Mel, I agree. I definitely think that he needs to find a balance. Earlier in the book, Will was helping Marcus to find new shoes and a new look. He said, “The whole idea of this expedition, Marcus, is that you learn to become a sheep." (page 125) By "sheep", he means the people who "fit in". I somewhat agree with Will. Marcus is not old enough to form an identity independent of his mother. I think that he first must learn to fit in with his peers before he can create his own identity, especially since his mother has had such strong impact on him. I don't think that he really knows who he is yet, so perhaps listening to Will and fitting in will help him discover who he wants to become.

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__HIGH FIDELITY - I think Ms. Holland said to just post 2 questions each, but we don't need to talk about them now?

1. Do you think that Nick Hornby has always been a "music junkie," or did he have to do an enormous amount of research in order to make all the references that he did? And if this is a true passion of Hornby's, then do you think this novel is somewhat autobiographical? Also, do you think we lost some important meanings of the book by not knowing all (or, in my case, most) of the musical references? 2. In what ways can we draw parallels between Rob ( High Fidelity____) and Will (About a Boy__)?__

Mel Sperling- 1. "You run the risk of losing anyone who is worth spending time with, unless you are so paranoid about loss that you choose someone unlosable, somebody who could not possibly appeal to anybody else at all. If you're going to go in for this stuff at all, you have to live with the possibility that it won't work out..." (31) Is rob being cynical, or realistic? 2.Do you think the book could do without the random dialogue between Barry and Dick, or do you think it is important to the story?

Claire - 1. "Laura and I have just had a phone call in which I suggested that she'd fucked up my life and, for the duration of the call, I believed it. But now - and I can do this with no trace of bemusement of self-dissatisfaction - I'm worrying about what to wear, and whether I look better stubbly or clean-shaven, and about hwat music I should play in the shop today." (67-68) Do you think that Rob is really as shallow as he thinks he is? 2. "When it comes to girlfriends, though, it's much trickier to be consistently honorable." (68) Do you agree that it's easier to appear to be a "good bloke" to your friends than to a girl/boyfriend or is Rob just making excuses?